Former chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Colonel Ahmadu Ali (retd) has some harsh words for Yoruba people of South West. According to him, the Yoruba are “ungrateful kind of people,” who do not appreciate what others have done for them. He is particularly pained that the Yoruba do not appreciate what former President Olusegun Obasanjo did for them.
The former chairman of the PDP also said that the Nigerian Governors’ Forum (NGF) does not constitute a threat to the powers and authority of the President.
In this interview, Ali revealed how those he described as self-appointed Yoruba leaders have disappointed him. He spoke on these and other issues.
Excerpts:
Is it true you wanted to be chairman of PDP Board of Trustee?
Yes.
What happened?
I was not chosen.
Is it a matter of choosing a candidate or something the party does through election?
It is more of choosing than election. At that level, it is like that. Board of Trustee comprises old men and experienced people that we don’t think it is necessary for people to cast their votes. When the party’s top hierarchy met, they decided it should be Tony Anenih. That is all.
Is it true that the BoT is advisory?
It is advisory.
So, the advice of BoT may be taken or be ignored?
Yes. It may be taken or be rejected. Anybody you advise has a right to take or reject your advice. They are to advise either the party or the legislature. It is all advisory. Nothing more.
What is the function of the National Working Committee?
That one is like our executive headed by the national chairman. They do the day-to-day running of the party. So, it is the national chairman that has the executive powers.
What of the National Executive Committee (NEC)?
The NEC is like the parliament of the party that broadly shapes the policy, which the National Working Committee and the national chairman carry out. The national chairman and the National Working Committee produce memoranda and present to the National Executive Committee for approval before they can act.
Where does the national convention come in?
National convention is the ultimate authority of the party. Whatever the National Executive Committee has approved and given out for execution by the national chairman and his executive and if it has fundamentally affected the constitution of the party, the national convention has the final authority to ratify it or reject it.
What do you say to the powers wielded by governors during your era as chairman of the party?
Does the Nigeria Governors’ Forum wield any powers? What powers do they wield?
It is believed that the governors decided who should be your successor, as we were told that PDP governors interviewed all aspirants for the position and they settled for one of them…
They did not interview them. The governors played a major role in that they were interested and they showed their interest. It gave the impression as if they are doing it all. You know, you can have a pressure group, if the BoT had been subjected to the public, the pressure from interested groups would be great. The constitution says it is only members of that board that can choose their chairman. They could decide to do it by voting or by consensus. It is left to them.
Many Nigerians are saying that the Nigerian Governors’ Forum is contesting for power with the executive.
I said there is nothing like that. They (governors) are paper tigers. The Governors’ Forum is a paper tiger. It is just about powers and counter powers, sort of crossing each other’s path. What can the Governors’ Forum do? It is in any constitution? It is not in the Nigerian constitution and it is not in our party’s constitution either. So, they are just a pressure group of people who are consulted on things in the economic council and they feel they must provide a pressure group to have their way. That is all. They are nothing. I don’t know why anybody is worried about them.
It is believed that they control the national delegates that vote at the National Executive Committee (NEC) meetings.
Anybody can control delegates. Some youths, PDP Youth Vanguard, PDP Good Governance Initiative and so many others control votes.
Control votes at the National Executive Committee (NEC) meetings?
No. Control votes at the NEC? Governors don’t. The way the NEC is composed, the governors cannot control anything. Sometimes, they make a contribution and they are shut down. They are ordinary members and they are all equal
Is it true that members of the BoT can vote at NEC meetings?
Normally, being advisory, they are there by virtue of being members of BoT. So, they actually or I should say in actual fact, they have no voting right. But they have power of suggestion, which is very, very strong. When they speak, you find that it is from all and sundry who come from all over the federation. They now get more in-depth into what is happening. Normally, they don’t know some of the things happening.
Some powerful members of your party told me that BoT members have right to vote at NEC meetings.
I am not aware. I was a national chairman of the party and I am telling you they don’t have right to vote at NEC meetings. Who again are these powerful people who can tell you anything more than I who had administered the party for three good years uninterrupted? Since my time, nobody has been able to hold that office for that period. So, I know what I am talking about.
Nigerians believe that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo has confidence in you since your days in the military and that is why he will always support you…
We have confidence in each other. That is all.
Would that be since your days in the military?
I say we have confidence in each other.
Is it true that President Jonathan and Baba Obasanjo are not on the same wavelength politically?
I am not aware of that. You have to be careful because the perception out there is totally wrong. These people are like a club – I mean all former Heads of State. So, if you sit down as an ordinary man in your tombo bar and you think they are fighting, Ekan ntanra yin je ni (You are only deceiving yourselves).
Are you satisfied with the PDP as it is today?
Why not? I am a serious member of the party and there is nothing wrong with the party.
So, what we read in the papers are mere fictions?
You in the media have a way of looking at things from a totally different angle. What we don’t see, you people start seeing them and you write your insinuations. So, we don’t bother ourselves.
What do you say to the coming together of four strong political parties? I mean the newly formed APC.
Well, APC is a drug that was banned a long time ago. It was banned because it was ineffective and because of the side effects. That is what APC is. So, if it an ineffective drug, you can’t bring it to treat any disease we have in this country today. We have since grown beyond that. So, those people are totally unimaginative. They come together and call themselves APC. The groups that are there, you know, makes no difference to us. They had always been there. So what? We have no fear.
The opposition says that President Jonathan is not doing well and that leaders of the party don’t have good plans for the country and they have to come together to save the country…
Our leaders have plans. It is executing the plans to solve the problem. There are many things that are perhaps, hindering such executions. But I think they are being unfair to Jonathan. He is just doing two years. How can you start marking somebody for WAEC exam when he is in JS3? That is not fair. So, you have to wait until he reaches SS3 before you can say let us test him. What has he done? You know many things have long incubation periods. So, two years judgment is unfair. You know, Nigerians are always in a hurry. That is our headache. That is not good for us. It makes people to make plenty of mistakes.
How do you see Boko Haram? Is it political?
I don’t know. I can’t comment on that. But all I know is that if you solve the problem of hunger in this country and you handle education solidly, we will get rid of all these problems. During my days as minister of education, the whole of the states in the North West zone today were called North West states. The six-year-olds in those days, only six per cent of them were attending schools. General Obasanjo and I launched the Universal Primary Education (UPE) scheme. I produced the national policy on education, which we launched in 1976. We physically launched the UPE in Oke Suna Primary School, Lagos. When we finished and I retired from the army, by 1980/81, I was already in the Senate and I went to the military and asked how the enrolment rate was going.
They said it increased to 45 per cent from six per cent.
Now, if that momentum were kept, we will not be talking about almajiri now. The secret is that we have to go back to basis by asking the elders for solutions. The late Emir of Katsina, Usman Nagogo, told me that the classroom I was building all over the federation as minister for education was only for goats. He said if I wanted it to be inhabited by students, I should take the almajiri teachers to the teacher training college to teach religious studies from primary one to six and give them small allowance, three pounds and fifty, and they will learn how to use chalk and so on and so forth. They will be there until two o’clock, like the students. So, when the students reach home, they are free for the almajiri teacher. I borrowed the idea. The late Sultan of Sokoto, also gave me a similar piece of advice and wrote letters to all the emirs to cooperate with me on the UPE scheme.
In Kano, with the extra money I was given for primary schools and for educationally backward areas, we decided to build science secondary schools. I established JAMB- the reinvigorated NUC on the prompting of Chief Obafemi Awolowo because he was a chancellor of one of the universities. By that time, 1982, we found that not only have we broken the backbone of backwardness, Kano State started producing the highest number of students that passed JAMB exams in the sciences into the universities in Nigeria. That was done by an old teacher, who studied and got degree. His name is Professor Ayagi. He is still alive. He was a commissioner for education for Kano State.
The JAMB result showed that the highest mark for science students into the Nigerian universities came from Kano. It is a question of maintaining the momentum. In Nigeria, we are fond of somebody starting something and somebody stopping it. People come into public office and behave as if they are discovering Nigeria afresh. Nobody wants to make reference to those who have performed in the past.
Obasanjo is sitting down there; he is a bundle of knowledge for this country. If you have any difficulty and you cannot go to him and say come, how did you do it? This is my problem. You are wasting your time. All the people hanging around all these people (in public office) are just bootlickers. They are not advising properly. Obasanjo is the only person who has been Head of State three times in this country.
Sir, is it three or two times?
Three times. He did it as a military. He came back twice as civilian. Is that not three times? That is the man who fought the civil war, defeated Biafra, arrested the Biafra Commander of the Armed Forces, General Effiong, brought him to Lagos, presented him to his Commander-in- Chief, General Yakubu Gowon and he signed the article of surrender. What kind of sacrifice do you want somebody to do again? He ran government when his boss, Murtala Muhammed, died and kept the faith. Murtala told us we shall all leave. I was in his cabinet.
You were in Murtala’s cabinet?
I was in the cabinet of Yakubu Gowon, Murtala and Obasanjo. Throughout the three administrations, I was the minister of education, throughout the three administrations of Gowon, Murtala and Obasanjo. Murtala said we should all go home after 1978.
Murtala said that?
Yes. He said that all those who are Generals and above should go to their villages. Anybody below who is still viable should return to the units, but I decided to go because as a medical doctor, I thought I had had enough. I left. This man, (Obasanjo) kept the faith and voluntarily handed over to civilians. He could have said he wasn’t going. What can anybody do? After all, it is the gun that got them there. And you people still don’t recognise him, especially the Yoruba people who are totally ungrateful kind of people in this country.
You want me to quote you as saying that?
Put it like that. They are ungrateful.
How sir? Yoruba leaders said Obasanjo was unfair to his people throughout his time in government.
What do you mean by being unfair to them? He is not a tribalist and he was not ruling a Yoruba kingdom. He ruled Nigeria. My own kingdom is one of the oldest kingdoms in this country –Igala kingdom. By 1100 or so when the barbarians were invading Britain, Igala was already a kingdom. How do you expect the man to behave?
Many Yoruba said Obasanjo was determined not to hand over to Obafemi Awolowo in 1979. They said Obasanjo administration of which you are part robbed Awolowo of victory at the polls…
Don’t talk rubbish. You are talking rubbish. That is the stupidity of the press and the self-appointed Yoruba leaders who are failures in their various fields of endeavour. They are just a total failure. How can you say, in an election where one candidate scored 12 million and showed presence in more than 12 states out of 19 and another candidate scored five million and showed presence in only five states, you then give it to the second person? What is democracy about? Is it a game of numbers? All the argument is about 12 two third? What is two third? The man had 12 states and 12 million votes. Awolowo had only five million and only in five states. You want to go and give it to him? Yoruba are another character.
Why were many party members deregistered under your watch in PDP?
Nobody was deregistered. The party wants membership. There is no question of deregistration. We came to a stage when the President and his deputy were at loggerheads and people took up positions. We were going into election and we couldn’t be sure who remained with us. The vice president had gone to the newly formed AC at the time and many people said they were going with him. So, we wanted to know our strength. It was a poll. We did not deregister anybody. If you did not go to your ward to register, that is your business; we will know you are not for us. If there is a decision going on in your ward and you went, you are part of the party. That was all we did. Simple arithmetic.
We did a secret poll to size our strength all over the federation and we knew we were going to win and we continued. People don’t have an idea of what was happening.
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